[DRAFT] PA Symbol Exploration

NOTE: This is the first time Danny/Jawn/I have ever worked on a proposal involving the transfer of funds from the treasury. We have no idea what we are doing, plz do not hesitate to provide feedback + suggest changes !!!

TL;DR: A proposal to fund an exploration into PA symbology. All creative output will be open-sourced + published onchain.

Background: Inspired from initial experimentation remixing the PA governance art, this proposal will fund continued work on creating new symbols/language/expression for PA. Early tests were done by @dannydiamonds over the past few weeks

Details: Danny + @jawn will collaborate on the artistic side, and @0xTranqui will provide any necessary admin + technical support. All work that is distributed for public minting will split proceeds between PA treasury, Danny, and Jawn

Budget: 1.0 ETH

  • 0.5 ETH to dannydiamonds.eth
  • 0.5 ETH to jawn.eth

Timeline (if passed):

  1. Fri Dec 23 Proposal Submitted
  2. Fri Dec 30 Proposal passes + ETH is transferred
  3. ~ Fri Jan 27 2nd proposal to bring work onchain submitted
  4. ~ Fri Feb 3rd 2nd proposal passes + work is published

Team:

  1. Dannydiamonds.eth is a multidisciplinary artist who has contributed various pieces to initial imagery research for PA.
  2. Jawn.eth is a multi hyphenate creative whose work for Felt Zine has served as a shared reference point for PA and other groups
  3. Tranqui.eth is a member of #FF89de + engineer/devrel at ZORA

Next steps:
The rough plan is to solicit feedback on this DRAFT proposal and submit a finalized version in ~24 hours. ALL FEEDBACK IS APPRECIATED :pray:

2 Likes
  • I think it looks fun!
  • I’m pro-more drops
  • Will this be generative zora contract drop?
    • Have you guys thought about a manifold or other cross platform drop with zora dev tools to show cross functionality of nouns builder, that would be pretty lit
  • What’s the title going to be? Symbol exploration is a little vague
  • I find going down the past props on Nouns DAO and also on the NSFW board for more inspiration on for forming ideas pretty effective, if you haven’t already.
  • Would be cool to see these artworks curated onchain through the curation protocol after they go live.
    • wen mainnet?

Admin Concerns

  • We haven’t publicly discussed how we want to present retroactive funding outside of the prophouse round submission or operational reimbursements, I think some parties are due after deploying 5 contracts and optics for the first pull from the treasury could be big here.
2 Likes

Would prefer to see art explorations that aren’t focusing on remixing the Zorb style there is now. Discussions during DAO Launch week were centered on governance artwork changing over time, almost like series drops.

Prefer to see more insight in the proposal as to the drive behind a symbol exploration and how it attaches itself to brand growth. There are PA members who are constantly exploring symbology for the brand, so want to see what the benefits are to create a proposal for exploration.

Opening a discussion in the forum to jumpstart this initiative with the community would be nice to engage with beforehand. All to say we should be setting a precedent for community engagement before proposals

Would like to see options for part or all of this funding to happen through an edition sale of the explorations. Similar to the most recent Nouns Builder prop, but def more of the percentage going to the artists.

Mirror all of @valcoholics’ admin notes. Optics for the first pull from treasury are something we should discuss beforehand. Larger discussion for FF89DE to talk about budgets for DAO operational work, retroctive funding, etc.

4 Likes

+1 shout out to the zorb but we need to meet danny and jawn in every expansive way possible

LIGHT IT UP

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wym by creative output would be open sourced, I actually don’t think thats necessary and danny, jawn, and you can have full creative control while maybe the process and code is open to view

open to view process but not open sourced on idea could be a bigger impact on art

Generally agree with @valcoholics and @losingmyego.

The proposal is directionally dope, but feels very vague. I’d like to see more info on the types and purposes of the proposed explorations.

3 Likes

thank uuu @valcoholics + @losingmyego for the quick + thorough feedback. I have responses + qs to a few things, and will defer the stuff more related to creative direction to @dannydiamonds + @jawn:

What will title be + will this be a zora generative drop ? - Val

– Title of the prop/resulting work still tbd (taking suggestions), just needed to throw something out there. Also not sure of the exact distro mechanics (ex: one drop vs series of drops), but feel like vagueness is fine and can be solidified during the exploration + will be officially decided when the follow up prop goes out to deploy the collection(s)

– would be awesome if we could use this as an opp to figure out foundation/manifold deployment. thats something that will be in my scope to figure out

Curation Qs + Admin concerns - Val

– by the time stuff would be ready to be released (roughly end of jan/beginning of feb), would be ideal if 1) updated protocol is live 2) we have a vague plan for our strategy related to curation

– slightly confused about the point about presenting retroactive funding. I understand there is stuff for FF89de to figure out, but this proposal feels mainly separate from that conversation. Agree that optics/precedent are important, could you plz provide more specific concerns related to this issue?

Zorb qs + proposal purpose + community discussion - losingmyego

– This forum post is us publicizing the idea for community discussion! Purpose for this DRAFT post was to solicit the exact type of feedback we have gotten so far. Is there additional engagement/outreach u are wishing we did here? Imo figuring out what the minimal amount of community engagement / pre-planning is necessary is to get proposals 1) aligned with community 2) passed – is key to making the proposal process as frictionless/not-annoying as possible to encourage consistent participation + action, while still ensuring that anything that passes is directionally aligned w/ general consensus

– I agree that I personally am most interested in seeing “expansive” visual progression for PA which creates/moves thing in directions we have currently not explored (aka not zorbs). That being said I think work focused on exploring core symbology (one example of which are the governance tokens) will always be important. I also want to emphasize that the initial work Danny has done experimenting was just directional and not intended to represent what the final output will look like. Will defer to @dannydiamonds + @jawn here to speak on this. I imagine a request of being “more expansive/less zorby” will be met enthusiastically

– “drive behind symbol exploration” – I feel like the answer to this is relatively simple. Goal is to expand the visual language/identity of PA, in a non prescriptive way – meaning there is a general creative direction to go in that this prop is suggesting but the final direction will be found during the process of doing the work. @dannydiamonds + @jawn do u have anything else to add here? Imo “PA symbol exploration” should/will probably end up being something we want to be funding in multiple directions simultaneously on a recurring basis

Funding request - losingmyego

– The hope with this proposal is to provide Danny + Jawn with funding upfront as well as % upside on the eventual collection released through PA. Funding approach was inspired by the recent NounsDAO drop proposal, which was the follow up proposal to 125ETH that was given to fund the creation of the media that is being dropped. In that instance, the creative team received both upfront funding + a 40% split on the collection upside

– I agree retroactive + performance based funding stratgeies will be extremely helpful/useful generally speaking (esp in the eventual prop house), but hope that we dont shy away from funding artists upfront when we deem the prop/effort worthy

What does open sourced mean? - Val

– By open source we mean exactly what you hinted at – being that once the project is done all of the output (asset/figma/blender files, process documentation, etc.) will be published onchain to add to what hopefully becomes a growing pool of artistic + technical resources for the community (and others outside the community).

Personal notes

– The scope of this proposal is quite small, funding request also (relatively) small, and if passed would activate two extremely talented non founding members to expand PA’s visual identity. This is intended to be a fun, experimental, “not too serious” way for us to get the ball rolling on actively leveraging the treasury to do things.

– Danny / Jawn will be the person who actually submits this proposal onchain

1 Like

Reading through all this now. I agree with @jaesmail that the proposal feels a bit vague. I’m just confused as to what the final output will be. A drop via Zora that explores PA symbolism? One drop from Jawn, one drop from Danny?

What will the split be between the treasury and the individual artists? Also I’d love to hear from Danny and Jawn here about what they’re hoping to accomplish with this!

3 Likes

I think this is a good point. Utilizing the forum so that we can ensure some standardized threshold of prop quality seems to be a good idea for at least the early days. (ex. how to write a good proposal, what are approaches that proliferate public assembly and what are not, etc.)

Yeah this is a really good benchmark as well.

1 Like

my formatting is going to be ass while i learn to respond to people in an aesthetic way.

@valcoholics I think ideas around open sourced + cc0 projects should serve as starting point(s) rather than an end point. for me, this means creating a pathway for folks to recreate the exact artwork in the hopes that understanding the process serves as a blueprint to remix, fork, add, etc new elements into the project.

this means we should share files with node set ups, the texture files, record process video. the hope here us that others pick up the baton and keep running with the identity.

which ties into @losingmyego comment. I wont speak too much on this yet cuz I want to get @dannydiamonds thoughts on this as well but I don’t see this as an end point which drastically changes the feel/look of PA but rather something intermediary … so the process is less prescriptive or something that departs completely from the existing feel, but asks what is the intermediary shape a zorb takes before it actualizes into a new form? ideally PA is always changing and picks up new forms and features along the ride. So i’m less interested in the end goal, and more interested in the space between, the liminal area full of potential.

2 Likes

I think the verbiage of symbol exploration is throwing me off because what I’m seeing is an artist proposal to make derivative artwork inspired by PA tokens

i would also ask if that isn’t what it is then what is different.

adding @jawn 's message about the creation of the open sourced process and proliferating templates for creativity and artists even approaching PA is good to spell out in the prop too

2 Likes

After reading @jawn’s words- am seeing this more as a prop to create a “Remix your own PA zorb” kit - which is more directional and has understood deliverables. That has direct network effect value to the org and allows for exploration through providing creative examples in the kit. Although I am not for keeping the actual zorb as the mainstay - if templates to remix it heavily into your own art were provided, that would be ideal for now.

That is something I would vote yes on, for many reasons beyond what i feel like typing rn lol. Happy to chat about it more @dannydiamonds @jawn

1 Like

funding artists to make whatever they want is different from funding artists to intentionally create brand assets though
I am in alignment that both is what we want for PA just not sure which one this is

Not sure if this prop is a request to change gov artwork

don’t think it is, but it could be!! lol. We’ll have to talk about how long we want our “artwork seasons” to be probs.

3 Likes

not to be meta about it but what is a “brand asset” – i think it will be interesting to play with that definition

ex: I would consider the solidity that makes up the curation protocol a “brand asset”

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A brand asset is a merged branch. Is the goal to go main branch.

If merge scratch manifold, what are thoughts on this for this exploration if it’s going to be deploying in February

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Going to try and provide some insight on concept here although Jawn and I are still putting the pieces together. Want to thank everyone for their feedback. @valcoholics @losingmyego @jaesmail @junghwan

I intend for this project to be distinctly separate from just continuing the meme (drawing attention to the governance token drops by adding details to the originals like horns and eyes). Although I enjoy altering the original gov tokens in that way and think it’s overall beneficial to the visibility of the DAO, that’s not the most compelling thing to me concept wise and not exactly what I want the focus of this exploration to be.

Not sure if it was intentional or unintentional but a few of these gov tokens have a beautiful juxtaposition weaved into them that I’d like to explore.

Ie. Desert and a Greenhouse in PA #14, Museum and an Artist’s Studio in PA #15


These image combinations describe a cycle and a natural process.
We’re interested in reimagining the juxtaposition of those existing images and attaching a more intentional meaning to them.

I remixed PA #8 below as a rough example. This particular execution is about the seasons. The butterflies represent Summer. The snowy woods represent Winter. As humans, when we are in one distinct climate it makes us long for the opposite. When it’s hot I miss the winter, when it’s cold I miss the summer. It’s like the blueprint for the next season which is where the background ties in. You could say that as the seasons assemble in front of us (publicly) it propels our longing for time to go faster, thus torturing us into growing old.


@jawn and I can certainly work on making imagery that’s completely separate from the Zorb but in this scenario I’m more focused on what the mirror is reflecting rather than the shape of the mirror. Not all of the pieces will directly incorporate images from existing tokens but several of the gov tokens will certainly serve as a launchpad for us to explore further.

@valcoholics No title or decision on whether it’ll be generative yet. Regardless of how that part of the project is executed, I primarily want to emphasize the meaning behind each combination, even if it’s reached accidentally via generative process.

2 Likes

This was just to explain my original idea and what we end up proposing could be more up the alley of a “Remix Your Own PA Zorb” kit like @losingmyego suggested. I’m all for adding an educational element past having everything open source. Could also drop the Zorb all together and just use the conceptual stuff as a starting point. The gov tokens are just what I was inspired by originally.

2 Likes